- TheThinkTank - lists.bikecollectives.org

so you want to throw a benefit...
by Cuper 15 Nov '07

15 Nov '07

A growing number of people are offering to do benefits for us. And by "offering to do," I mean a person approaches us with an idea, does all the work and most of the promotion, and turns over share of the glory at the end. I really want to encourage this trend. Every once and a while, we run into a conflict of interest, and have to say "no, thank you." (Alleycats may be fun, but many of our friends object to seeing "Run red lights!" and "Support Neighborhood Bike Works!" on the same flier.) I don't much like turning people down, and want written guidelines I can share with would-be organizers. Sometimes it seems like the goal is to use our name to help promote an event, rather than to have an event which helps us. This is okay, up to a point. It's not a benefit for us, though, if it doesn't raise money /for us/. I'd like to request a minimum donation -- either percent of proceeds, or flat amount of cash -- in order for an organizer to use our name, logo, or otherwise suggest it's a benefit for us. That said, I have no idea what would be appropriate. Ten percent? Fifty percent? A hundred dollars? Does anyone have policies or feedback about these sorts of things? Can you share 'em? jimmie -- -- Neighborhood Bike Works tel: 215.386.0316 3916 Locust Walk fax: 215.386.7288 Philadelphia, PA 19104 www.neighborhoodbikeworks.org Providing opportunities to youth through bicycling. NBw has a listserv! To stay in touch, subscribe to nbw(a)list.purple.com via www.purple.com/list.html.

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Re: [TheThinkTank] Parking racks from frames
by Bob Giordano 15 Nov '07

15 Nov '07

we are making bicycle parking racks from frames. very easy and effective. strip down frame, insert stem into seat tube, turn upside down and slide stem onto a 1" piece of round tubing. space them at about 30". a 90" piece of round steel tubing works great: this allows an inverted bike frame on each end, with a frame at 30" and one at 60". this allows 8 bikes to be parked easily. the round tubing should be about 10" off the ground: this is accomplished either with a bmx frame on each end attached via stem in seat tube, or even simpler- bmx handlebars and a stem (similar to the bike stand set up that free ride pittsburgh has a picture of on their web). i'll let the list know when we have a picture. we have 6 of these racks, and we loan them out and/or take them to events (by bike trailer because they are so light). i'd imagine we could have them 'for hire.' we a couple of these in front of our shop too. these racks are a use for frames that have been hit by a car, or low-end bikes. you could also leave some parts on the bike, like the bottom bracket- that way, as energy gets more expensive, the parking racks could possibly serve as a part depo. community gardens are a good outlet for these racks too. if security is an issue, a quick weld or grind can make them more secure. -- Bob Giordano Free Cycles Missoula Shop: 732 S. 1st St. West, 541.7284 3PM-7PM Mon,Tues,Thurs & 11AM-3PM Sat Missoula Institute for Sustainable Transportation www.strans.org, mist(a)strans.org, 406-880-6834

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How To Make A Bike Blender
by Joseph 15 Nov '07

15 Nov '07

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone has plans on how to make a bike blender. I am having hard time finding this stuff on the internet and figured someone must have a simple design. I plan on building it with youth from our programs over the course of a day and hopefully get to share a milkshake at the end of it all. Any resources you have or could point me to would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -Joe Joseph Parietti Program Coordinator Bike Works 3709 S. Ferdinand St, Seattle, WA 98118 (206) 725-9408, ext. 2 www.bikeworks.org

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shop bike racks, locking tools
by Urban Bike Project of Wilmington, Inc. 14 Nov '07

14 Nov '07

Hi All, UBP just moved into our new space! Currently all the bikes are leaning against each other (pedals off, handlebars turned) with no easy way to get ones in the middle out. We have a fairly open floor space and I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for building racks that would hold bikes more upright and separate from each other. The channel systems used by bike shops would be great, but of course we'd rather build something with existing resources and without spending a lot of cash. We don't have much room for hanging bikes, but will be putting up some kind of cable system like Free Ride has for wheels. Another quick question. We are in a shared space situation and are trying to figure out what tools to secure and how. We have been thinking about putting latches on an old fridge and using that to keep valuables. In your experience what type of stuff would walk out of your shop if it wasn't bolted down or locked up? Looking for any and all ideas... Thanks! Brian -- Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org

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sopo wins grant from fund for southern communities
by rachael spiewak 14 Nov '07

14 Nov '07

hi, friends. just wanted to share the fabulous news that we scored a grant from the fund for southern communities <http://www.fundforsouth.org>. we appear to be in good company <http://fundforsouth.org/new/grants/grants2007_2008.htm>. i'm going to upload our application to the wiki later so folks can make use of it. hooray for community bike shops! -rachael

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design specs for steel cable wheel rack?
by Durham Bike Co-op 09 Nov '07

09 Nov '07

Hey Free Ride + anyone else who has done something like this: we're also thinking about installing a cable (+ hooks + spacers) kinda thing for wheel storage, as on the "shop organization" part of the wiki. So: I was wondering if there were any suggestions out there about what type of wire is appropriate; what hardware (ends, anchors, assemblies etc.) to use and how to use them. We'll be going into either brick or wood joists to anchor it, depending on how we lay it out. Thanks. peace, Colin. -- Durham Bike Co-op 723 N. Mangum St. Durham, NC 27701 www.durhambikecoop.org

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BICAS Hiring Community Mechanic / Collective Member
by Ellie Kaszniak 08 Nov '07

08 Nov '07

BICAS, a collectively run non-profit BICYCLE recycling and education center is seeking a part time Staff Collective Member, $7.85/hr. Job Description: assist customers, help with classes, build bikes, coordinate volunteers, etc. Personable and comfortable greeting customers, strong mechanical skills encouraged, bilingual a plus, interest or experience in teaching classes or grant writing/organizational work a plus. Diversity of age, gender, ethnicity encouraged. Accepting applications until November 23rd. Contact bicasunderground(a)yahoo.com or 44 W. 6th St (drop in or mail) for resumes, #628-7950 or e-mail for questions. www.bicas.org. TUCSON, ARIZONA P.S. I tried posting this directly on the bike collectives website but was not able to submit the form... same thing happened a few months ago and someone helped us get it on there. If anyone is able to do that again, it would be hugely appreciated, or just pass this on to anyone that might have interest. Thanks _________________________________________________________________ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmail…

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Bike Intake Sheet
by Austin Amos 06 Nov '07

06 Nov '07

I have my first bike donation pickups scheduled for this weekend. I posted an ad in a local weekly trader paper for junk bike pickup service. I plan to repair / service the bikes and off them to the community to test the waters on the bike collective concept. Other members have advised me to get a signature / driver's licence number from the person making the donation of the bike(s). Does anyone have a template form available in Word .doc or .PDF format that I can use as a Bike Intake Sheet. I would almost like something with some legal verbage on it. I plan to provide a copy to my city police for them to research the serial numbers for theft. Additionally I feel that once I achieve 503 C non-profit status I can contact the past groups of donors about their donation values. I also appreciate any additional tips you can provide. Thanks again, Austin Amos

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Re: [TheThinkTank] Craigslist Postings - tires (The Bike Cave - San Marcos, Texas)
by Taylor 31 Oct '07

31 Oct '07

>> recycled as metal scrap (and now that our local MEC store takes our >> dead tires for recycling our garbage now is mainly old seats and >> other plastic bits). >> > > that's a question for you guys... what do you do with your old dry rotted tires? We can't find anyone that will take them in baltimore. I found one place that would charge a dollar a pound to recycle them, obviously not an option for us....... Any ideas about who to talk to and what to do with them if not? The only reuse idea I've had is to make potts out of them which would be time consuming, and only use afew...... Beth Velocipede Bike Project Baltimore, MD RE"CYCLING" , etc. Hello Beth and others, Our ethos at our shop is to recycle EVERYTHING! So besides the usuals, glass, cans, paper and cardboard we make an effort to separate and recycle aluminum (unusable walmart frames) and steel (most bolts, etc.) and patch all our tubes (gives mundane but fun work for those volunteers who dont know much about fixing bikes but want to help the shop, we also have the occasional "tubular tuesday" were we all sit down with a beer and patch tubes like crazy) and give them away for free. I also started to make wind chimes out of used, unusable chainrings, short cables, stems and bent handlebars (aluminum = better sound). They aren't the best sounding windchimes, but they are damn cool and use 100% recycled parts. Try it out and send me a picture if it works! Tires: An idea I had to use the extra tires we discard is to keep them, shred them (something like a wood chipper) then make them into floor mats. I would like to think a good glaze glue would do the trick, but I HAVE NOT tried this out yet (we are super busy, just like every other community bike shop). Its not much help, but its an idea! I will test this theory out and try it soon, if someone beats me to it, let me know! Taylor taylorpow(a)gmail.com www.thebikecave.org

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do you have an internship program? details please!
by rachael spiewak 31 Oct '07

31 Oct '07

Hi, friends. Sopo just got its first intern, an 11th grader with an anti-authoritarian outlook who's ready to learn how to alter power structures (his words, I swear!). We're all kinds of thrilled about creating a radical internship program for him, and we want him to get the most out of the experience. I'm working on the structure end of things. His school didn't supply us with any parameters (the idea is to spend time at some nonprofit of your choice and write a few review papers). I'm wondering: - if you offer internships at your shop, what kind of structure do you use? - if you have experience with radical internships, can you share a little bit about that with us? Thanks! rachael

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Youth EAB program documentation
by Edward France 31 Oct '07

31 Oct '07

Hey Friends, We in Santa Barbara are already in over our head with our youth program, which is part 'trips for kids' style and part youth Earn-A-Bike. We're trying to write out a program guideline for our instructors (and funders?) and would super duper appreciate any program materials (like word docs or pdf's) from you' alls programs. I know there has already been a lot of good discussion on the think tank, and more documentation -especially formal documents- will help even more. One example of what we're looking for is the SLCBC EAB application : http://www.bikecollectives.org/wiki/index.php?title=SLCBC_Earn-a-Bike_Grant… Any others for us to contrast, compare, and cannibalize? best, Ed France BiciCentro.org

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Craigslist Postings
by Rich Points 30 Oct '07

30 Oct '07

Hey All, Craigs has been a great way to clear the showroom when it's overstocked or you need to raise some quick cash. I just posted a couple of our bikes on Craigslist and thought I'd share it with you. Please have a look at it and respond with your comments. How is your collective using Craigs? http://denver.craigslist.org/bik/459346784.html -- Rich Points Community Cycles Director http://CommunityCycles.org Rich(a)CommunityCycles.org 720-565-6019

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Fwd: Bike Collective Resources and Association: Free Ride on satellite tv
by Jonathan Morrison 27 Oct '07

27 Oct '07

FYI ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: John Z Wetmore <john(a)pedestrians.org> Date: Oct 27, 2007 1:10 AM Subject: Bike Collective Resources and Association: Free Ride on satellite tv To: jonathan(a)slcbikecollective.org This is an enquiry e-mail via http://www.bikecollectives.org from: John Z Wetmore <john(a)pedestrians.org> Tuesday, October 30, The Universityhouse Channel will show Episode 134 of "Perils For Pedestrians". Contents of Episode 134 (2007): --We talk with the head of Bike Pittsburgh; --We learn about Friends of the Riverfront; --Free Ride recycles abandoned bicycles; --The Southwestern Pennsylvania Commission looks at transportation issues; --A study at Carnegie Mellon University examines the history of pedestrian crashes. DISH Network Channel 9411 -- The Universityhouse Channel Tuesday -- 9:30 PM Eastern, 6:30 Pacific Episode 134 is also available on Google Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4134265547136887723 Note: Public access cable channels are showing different episodes than DISH Network. Thank you. -- Sincerely, Jonathan Morrison Project Coordinator Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org

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getting and keeping kids in the shop
by veganboyjosh＠gmail.com 26 Oct '07

26 Oct '07

at Community Cycles in boulder, we're trying to nail down a formula for the kid's program(s) that works well with our facilitators, as well as our kids. we want to be flexible enough to address different learning styles, experience levels, languages, etc. we're getting better at this, as we gain experience with planning, execution, etc. one issue we were facing a while ago is that kids would join the Earn-a-bike program just for the bike. they had no interest in helping around the shop, contributing to the community of the place, etc. once they got their bike, and finished their hourwise commitment to the program, they were gone. we'd never see them again. there were some kids who we felt really got it, with regards to the bike culture/attitude we were trying to foster in our shop, our neighborhood, etc. those kids we miss the most, since they have so much potential to keep on giving, teaching other kids, staying on a bike when all the other kids are starting to drive, etc... anyway, we seem to have done something right. now we have kids who are done with their hours at the EAB program, and want to hang out in the shop. we're loathe to send them away, but what to do with them? some have brought some friends, so we've tried getting them to mentor their friend, and strip bikes, etc...we'd like to do more, and are struggling to come up with things for the more experienced/motivated kids to do while we focus on those not so experienced. the time we have set aside for kids night is kids and parents only, so it's not like we have to take time away from grownups--who, strangely, often have less patience when their question won't be answered until the kids' issue is sorted out. We'd still like to give the kids what they want, and keep our sanity. any ideas? anyone else facing similar problems? what did/do you do? i heard someone from our shop say they talked to a bunch of people at bikebike! and no one else had a model close to ours, so i'm not sure if we're the only ones dealing with this or not... thanks, and have a great weekend everyone! josh.

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Re: [TheThinkTank] Craigslist Postings
by BovineOaks＠aol.com 26 Oct '07

26 Oct '07

In a message dated 10/26/2007 1:06:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, youractionsdefineyou(a)gmail.com writes: speculators would descend on our project and buy up all the decent stuff Now how could speculators buy parts you do not put on Craigs list. If you only list basic and medium quality stuff, you can stave off the speculators. Or you could price nice stuff appropriately! People who volunteer can earn the nicer stuff or work and pay a lessor rate for nice stuff. Win win win ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Re: [TheThinkTank] wanted: good schrader head for floor pumps
by BovineOaks＠aol.com 26 Oct '07

26 Oct '07

Which two sided head are you using. I have been using the Topeak at many shops around the country. The nice thing is that you can order parts for it if you do break off the Schrader depressor you can fix it. They have one kit that contains multiple parts for all the pumps they manufacture. If you have a great pump Topeak makes a hose kit that has seven adaptors for pump bases. I am not impressed with their smart head but the two sided head has be great. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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IRS Workshop
by Jonathan Morrison 26 Oct '07

26 Oct '07

http://www.irsworkshops.eventsdesigner.com/ I will be attending the one in Salt Lake City, I will try to take good notes and post what I learned on the wiki. -- Sincerely, Jonathan Morrison Project Coordinator Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org

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Wanted: Park Tool HCW-11
by Jonathan Morrison 26 Oct '07

26 Oct '07

We are looking for this tool if anyone knows where we can find one... http://biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=8061721832&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Bottom-… -- Sincerely, Jonathan Morrison Project Coordinator Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org

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Bike Collective Demographics
by Austin Amos 25 Oct '07

25 Oct '07

Is there such a thing as a listing of Demographics available for Bike Collectives. I am trying to start one in a small city / rural area in West Virginia. I am trying to understand what characteristics I should focus my research on to tell if my are will support a bike collective. I look forward to reading your reply. Thanks again, Austin Amos

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Re: [TheThinkTank] HELP! non-profit/insurance questions
by Jessica McPherson 24 Oct '07

24 Oct '07

There are a lot of good reasons for getting 501c3 status. However, I think that there is a general assumption that it is the only possible option, and some healthy questioning of that might be a good thing. At a minimum I think people should make sure they fully understand what it will mean, and what other possibilities exist. The "giving things" point is a good one. If you have no legal identity, some people will feel uncomfortable giving you stuff or money, because the only thing stopping that stuff from going directly into the pockets of the people involved is the idea that a group exists (no laws, no requirement for standard accounting practices intended to keep everyone on the level, etc.). And if you are in the market for grants, many granting agencies won't give you anything if you don't have a legal identity of some sort. Some only give to 501c3 also. That said - there are other ways to gain a legal identity than 501c3 status. And you can get insurance with any of them, which takes care of the "protection from being sued" issue. You can be a not for profit business, or a straight up business corporation (there are a couple of ways to do that, I don't know much about it). In some states it is also possible to incorporate as a collective. These do not have the tax advantages of 501c3 status gives your group and people that give to it. They do not have as many restrictions on your activity or quite as close scrutiny of your accounting (but it would be mistaken to believe you can entirely avoid accounting work by being a business rather than a non-profit, many of the standards are the same). Pittsburgh's radical bookstore decided to go one of these routes, even though they are non-profit and all volunteer. (www.bigideapgh.org) The main point that I learned at Bike!Bike! is that once you put assets in the name of a non-profit, they can't be taken out. They can only be given to other non-profits. If at some point in the future you want to do something that doesn't fully fit with what's allowed for non-profits, you can't use the money (or building, or other assets) you made as a non-profit to help you. So - I don't fully know what non-profits are and aren't allowed to do. There are restrictions on political activity and commercial activity. I'd find that out, and make sure that what you want to do with your group can fit within those restrictions. A half-way step you can take is to get a fiscal sponsorship relationship with an existing non-profit. You don't have to do as much paperwork, they help you figure out what's going on, but you have the tax and legal advantages of 501c3 status. However, as far as your assets are concerned you are still putting them in the name of a 501c3 entity, so if you leave, you can only keep them if you become your own 501c3. Anyway, that's what I know, which I feel is not enough. -Jessica ----- Original Message ---- From: Jonathan Morrison <jonathan(a)slcbikecollective.org> To: The Think Tank <thethinktank(a)lists.bikecollectives.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:31:04 PM Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] HELP! non-profit/insurance questions 1) At Bike!Bike! I was shocked by how many organizations didn't have their 501(c)(3) status yet. Plenty of organizations do not get it right away. However, I would say that as much as dealing with the IRS can suck (it actually isn't that bad) becoming an official non-profit is worth it because it makes it easy and quick for everyone to give you things -- money, bikes, tools, compressors, space, grants, you name it. In Salt Lake we were a 501(c)(3) on paper before we touched a single bike or tool. Thinking back, non getting that status would have been like trying to ride a bike cross-country sans the tires. Sure you could do it, but why would you want to? It was nice that we could just enjoy the ride, instead of worrying about every little pebble. 2) I would agree with Mario, just because you don't hear about it, doesn't mean that settlements aren't going on all the time. Besides, Murphy's Law clearly states that you will get sued right after you make a conscience decision to decline insurance. In that case, the individuals behind your organization could be stripped of anything of value and the organization will no longer exist. -- Sincerely, Jonathan Morrison Project Coordinator Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org On 10/23/07, Mario Bruzzone <mario.bruzzone(a)gmail.com > wrote:Danny, as far as #2 for legitimate shops, yes, and it has happened with fair regularity. The most prominent example I can think of is the (failed) lawsuit against Walmart a year or two ago--even though the bikes in Walmart are often critically defective. Off the top of my head, there was also a rider who sued a shop in Santa Fe for a quick-release issue. Mostly, though, these lawsuits never make the news because they don't make it to trial. Best, Mario Bruzzone Bike Kitchen San Francisco On 10/23/07, danny wood rocknroll lazer <abortone(a)graffiti.net> wrote: i am a collective member of Krank It Up! in tallahassee, florida, and we're negotiating some possibly big (and possibly very rash and uninformed) changes. i have some questions for the listserve- 1) are there any other collective/community bike shops that have ever decided against going official nonprofit 501c3, or decided to put it off? 2) have there EVER been ANY community bike shops that have ever been sued by an injured cyclist or their family/insurance company, perhaps for allowing people to build janky bikes? has anyone ever heard of any bike shop at all (even traditional, for-profit ones) being sued for a customer getting hurt while out riding? my guess is that the answer to 2 is no; my hope is that the answer to 1 is yes. thanks! -danny = $60 Off at Overstock.com Get your free Overstock discounts only at CouponShare. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=f27beb132a3d1ffc4b6dd33… -- Powered By Outblaze _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank(a)lists.bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank(a)lists.bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank(a)lists.bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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HELP! non-profit/insurance questions
by danny wood rocknroll lazer 24 Oct '07

24 Oct '07

i am a collective member of Krank It Up! in tallahassee, florida, and we're negotiating some possibly big (and possibly very rash and uninformed) changes. i have some questions for the listserve- 1) are there any other collective/community bike shops that have ever decided against going official nonprofit 501c3, or decided to put it off? 2) have there EVER been ANY community bike shops that have ever been sued by an injured cyclist or their family/insurance company, perhaps for allowing people to build janky bikes? has anyone ever heard of any bike shop at all (even traditional, for-profit ones) being sued for a customer getting hurt while out riding? my guess is that the answer to 2 is no; my hope is that the answer to 1 is yes. thanks! -danny = $60 Off at Overstock.com Get your free Overstock discounts only at CouponShare. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=f27beb132a3d1ffc4b6dd33… -- Powered By Outblaze

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grant proposals
by lance ayer 23 Oct '07

23 Oct '07

Greetings all, We are in the midst of starting up a new bike coop here in Calgary. So far it is going very well, but the next task of putting together a business proposal is proving to be quite a task given our short deadline for funding and other grants. Could someone point me in the direction of some resources which could help us out in this regard? Or if any coops have copies of their own proposals available I would be most greatful if they could be sent my way. Cheers, Lance Ayer Campus Bike Initiative, Calgary

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Online Donations
by Jay Varner 22 Oct '07

22 Oct '07

For all you 501(c)3's who use PayPal for online donations, you should look at Google Checkout http://checkout.google.com/seller/npo/ It's free for a while (like till '09) and their current rates are less than PayPal's. Enjoy, Jay

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confusion about fees
by maintenence collective 22 Oct '07

22 Oct '07

Yo, so on the bike collective wiki it says this: There is one time *$500* fee when applying and applications can take up to five months before getting a response. The IRS seems to find something wrong with everyone's application, so don't be offended. After submiting your corrections/explanations you will receive your Employee Identification Number (EIN)<http://www.bikecollectives.org/wiki/index.php?title=Employee_Identification…>number. and then it says this: Estimated revenue of $10,000 or more per year, the fee to file te forms to the IRS is $750 any less and the fee is *$300. * *Are we expected to pay $500 or $300?* *the forms say nothing about a $500 fee, and my lawyer seems not to want to tell me which it is... any insight? thanks, we've finally finished our forms and are filing this week. * *:-)*

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Re: [TheThinkTank] collectives in Fl?
by danny wood rocknroll lazer 21 Oct '07

21 Oct '07

there are bike collectives in tallahassee (here), gainesville, and sarasota, at least. but florida is a big fucking state, and all of those are really really far away from miami. > > > hi there, > Wondering if there's a bike collective in Miami, or Ft Lauderdale Fl... i > know its hot and muggy, but I'll be there next month... > thanks, > > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank(a)lists.bikecollectives.org > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… > = Steel and Aluminum Gutters in 70 Colors RDCA provides commercial steel, aluminum and copper Gutters (5-10" wide), downspouts up to 50 feet long, and elbows. In addition, RDCA sells gutter and roof panel machines. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=2ded1b85a9db4f06d40aa34… -- Powered By Outblaze

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